E25 - When Homeopathy Makes You Question Everything

📚 From the Archive

Before we begin a brand new season of What Heals, I wanted to revisit one of my favourite conversations from the early days of the podcast.

This episode was recorded over five years ago, long before What Heals existed in its current form. Listening back now feels quite surreal. My work has evolved, my understanding of health, homeopathy and healing has deepened, and I wouldn't necessarily use exactly the same language or framing today. But this conversation has always stayed with me.

It begins with homeopathy and somehow opens out into something much bigger.

I'm joined by homeopath and former university lecturer Dr Ralf Jeutter, alongside researcher and musician Remy Vega, for a wide-ranging discussion about healing, consciousness, self-responsibility, freedom and what happens when questioning our understanding of health begins to challenge our understanding of reality itself.

We explore why homeopathy asks us to think differently about disease, susceptibility and the energetic nature of life, before moving into a fascinating conversation about philosophy, Hermetic principles, history, consciousness and the importance of living in alignment with truth.

Whether you agree with every idea discussed or not, I hope you'll hear this conversation in the spirit it was intended: three curious people exploring big questions with open minds.

I still think there is real gold in this episode.

Key takeaways

•  Why homeopathy challenges a purely materialistic view of health 
•  The relationship between susceptibility, terrain and disease 
•  Healing as more than simply treating physical symptoms 
•  Why consciousness and self-responsibility are central to healing 
•  How questioning health can lead to questioning much bigger assumptions 
•  The Hermetic principles and how they relate to everyday life 
•  Authenticity, intuition and the search for truth 
•  Why healing is often an inner journey as much as a physical one 

We also talk about

•  Ralf's journey from academia into homeopathy 
•  Samuel Hahnemann's philosophy and energetic medicine 
•  Homeopathy in epidemic disease 
•  Freedom, personal responsibility and conscience 
•  Steiner, philosophy and consciousness 
•  Ancient wisdom traditions and the nature of reality 
•  How curiosity can become the beginning of healing

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Music intro: Inside Boy by Bary

Transcript

0:00

Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Before we begin, I just wanna say a few words about this episode. This conversation was cr- recorded over five years ago in the very early days of the podcast, long before What Heals existed in its current form. And honestly, listening back to it now feels quite surreal. So much has changed since then. I've changed, my work has evolved, my understanding of homeopathy, health, freedom, consciousness, and even how I speak about these things has deepened so much. But this episode has always stayed with me. It was one of my personal favorites from the early podcast days be- because it captured something very real, not polished, not neatly packaged, but real. It was one of those conversations that start with homeopathy and somehow opens out into everything: healing, self-responsibility, freedom, the energetic nature of life, consciousness, truth, old knowledge, and what happens when you begin to question the world you were handed. Ralf Feuerstein was one of my favorite lecturers when I studied homeopathy, and I always loved the way he brought philosophy, tradition, and deep thinking into the subject. And Remy Vega came into the conversation from a very different angle, but there was such a fascinating meeting of minds between them. This is definitely an archive episode. It belongs to a particular moment in time, and you'll hear references and reflections that reflect where we were then. But I'm sharing it because I think there's gold in it. For me, this conversation is part of the evolution. It shows the early threads of what has now become What Heals, the idea that healing is not just physical, that homeopathy is not just about remedies, and that questioning health often leads us into much bigger questions about reality, freedom, and what it means to be human. So take this one as an archive conversation. Raw, imperfect, wide-ranging, and very alive, and perhaps more than anything, a reminder of how much we all evolve when we keep asking better questions Thank you both for coming on Ralph. Can I get you to introduce yourself and so briefly, and to everyone listening, Ralph was my amazing lecturer when I studied at CHG and we stood at board to Ralph's lectures, probably more than anyone else's. Ralph, could you just do a really brief intro to people listening? That's okay. Yeah, sure. What is of interest? I'm Ralph yatta. I'm originally from Germany,, have lived in England for over 30 years and I'm dividing up my time really between England and Germany now more Germany than England, due to the travel restrictions and so on. And originally I come from academia, I don't know whether that's of any interest. So I was lecturer at the university and there was an academic basically. and then at some point,, I got in touch really indirectly first with homeopathy. And, do you want to hear it at this stage, Lisa? I was going to ask, my first question is going to ask you was how you got into homeopathy. So yeah, if it goes into that great, And I originally come from academia and then my then first wife who is not my wife anymore my then first wife, she had all sorts of professionally related allergies, what it was an archeological restorer. And and then she went to in Germany, we call them higher Paktika. So it kind of natural path you could say. And she was treated with bioresonance therapy and I never heard of this, and I just remember her sitting there with these things, these, with these metal rods and something was put in and, something happened. And I thought being seriously being the sort of skeptical academic thinking yeah. Surely that would do something. And then of course it did a lot, basically it solved all allergies. And then I thought, wow, this is interesting, and of course this is the eyes apathic principle. But still it was this principle of what you drive out. The same thing with the same thing, that sort of thing, and it was to do with the material to work with. And so that basically use those materials who was allergic to, and then I remember. So that was the first step. And then I remember picking up and I, to be honest, at least I don't remember exactly how I got from apathy to homeopathy, but it is it's this close, and I saw this book by this obscure Indian homeopath called IAH, and it's still one of my favorite books. I think I bought it for, one 50 or something like that. And I read the introduction and I remember after having read the introduction, thinking, wow, if this is true, but this doctor tells me I seriously have to rethink everything I so far understood about the world, and the first thing was of course, this familiar principles so that I. Yeah, fascinating. Interesting. But it was more from a theoretical point of view at that stage, and and then of course it also to do that was the second thing that you can actually operate. It seems to be effective with what are clearly very highly diluted. What should be completely ineffective substances and so on. So this was a complete and nice, it was like a fresh, complete, fresh challenge to my sofa, to my worldview, which, to that point was obviously not that how can I say broad to actually take these things in, but I was immediately struck by this and I loved the introduction and I loved, the challenge of being able now to completely look at the world in a new way, and so that was that. And then I just had the luck. I lived in Manchester at the time that there was a 10 weeks course, so I could do this 10 weeks course. And I thought that would be it. Of course I remained an academic at the university coming from literature and philosophy and, remained an academic that, and just, do a little bit of home homeopathy for friends and for family and so on. But then it became much more because Manchester also had actually a very good homeopathic college, Northwest college of homeopathy with a wonderful principal on his Roberts. I don't know whether you've ever come across him. There was, this was the generation Lisa where our homeopathic principles were also drew it, and it was just fantastic. These were the anarchic guys, these were the guys who had a lot of courage, the way they talked about the world, the way they presented themselves to the world, they were feel it, and And and then I decided what I want to do is to do this in parallel, so I've continued with my academic work and and then I do the homeopathy parallel and that became more and more, not exactly a conflict, but I realized I have, at some point I had to take a decision, because otherwise I would do one thing, both things really only half. And and then I took the jump in. I went into a homeopathy, become a homeopathic practitioner and really, I must stand up and look back and looking at the situation now, just to that's why, I, I mentioned also that with the academic and this is when I think about it now, the academics are failing us. Where are the intellectuals, where are those established intellectuals? And we have, of course in America, we have this really bad example of non Chomsky who always has to be my hero and who has standing in my opinion, has made unspeakable statements, about the those people who decide not to take the injections. And also we have in Germany, a great and very respected philosopher, Juergen Habermas, who comes from the Adorno school. We are talking here critical philosophy. We are talking the whole Frankfurt school coming from analyzing the authoritarian character being specialists in totalitarianism, coming basically out of the wake of Nazi Germany, and then establishing this very liberal, far reaching Frankfurt school. And he has now Juergen Habermas at the age of 92, saying that all the measures, the German government are taking is perfectly fine. And he doesn't see a problem at all in terms of restrictions of freedoms and so on. So when I just look at that, I'm now I must say that as much as I enjoyed the academia and enjoyed being with my colleagues and all of this, I'm glad to be out of it, because it is basically very suffocating or has become a more and more suffocating environment and people are completely streamlined. It seems now. And it is still a great surprise to me that these are these other people who do not speak out, but maybe we become to that lady. And Remy has maybe also thoughts on that. And then yes, with homeopathy. I then found a field which allowed me really to get away from theory and actually be of use to other people, and I love that, I love the fact that festival is incredibly intellectually stimulating and emotionally stimulating of from your position, but also that it has such a practical application, and that basically now we have a set of tools with which we can help people effectively, and maybe I should just mention as an introduction or to actually do pediatric medicine, so I'm also with one foot not a pun intended actually. And the men in the medical camp. And for me, that's actually a wonderful profession because I'm working a lot with older people and this is really basically professional, practical skills. Just use your practical skills and you can relieve patients often in wonderful and very simple, easy ways. So it seems that has been my my, my journey really, and feeling more and more settled in that, in the sense of working with people, being with people and especially these days, being with a lot of older people and doing also lots of home visits. So I think I know I can say what what the plight of so many of these people are, is, so anyway, that's a, there's a short introduction. These are longer introduction. Seem for the listeners know we walked today's podcasts to be a bit about self responsibility and freedom. I guess that's why I really wants to get both of you on coming from slightly different angles, but having that sort of mutual interests. And I think quite often when people wake up, it can be quite often because of health. As you say, I had that exact same experience of you of when you realize the honey homeopathic philosophy and principles and think if this is true, everything I've been told is utter bullshit, basically. It re it totally starts to make you question lots of other things. And I think that is one of the steps where people can have self-empowerment and more free to feel more free in themselves is realizing. Health comes from within,, not something from something external, it's how you are internally. And one thing that you just, because it is a hot topic, just to kick off really, I'd like to ask if you have a view, what's your view necessarily on terrain versus gem theory? Cause I know that is something that's getting discussed a lot. Or does it not even really particularly matter, when you look at it from a homeopathic philosophical point of view, where as that, my sort of, how can I say my bedrock and homeopathy is hannema, somehow Hanaman so the founder and of course over time many of his teachings have become diluted really. And that's maybe Remy will understand this from a different point of view. And that has to do with tradition. That in homeopathy we are not necessarily good with actually honoring our tradition and knowing our tradition in detail. And I find whatever field you're in, you need to know your tradition, and you need to know your roots and you need to know how it has developed. And just to summarize it quickly, I don't have. Let's say one sided view on germ versus terrain, but in a sense, I go there with Hannah, who was the precursor of, or he provided the precursor of the germ theory with his myosin theory. And this is sometimes forgotten. His Maya's in theory is basically a theory of infectious diseases and he was very clear that there are some people that don't know what my essence, sorry. Honamin called what we would now call infectious diseases. He would call this myosin. That means basically something you inquire through an external event that was Hanuman's view. So it is actually something you get infected with. And for him, it was important that if somebody acquire demise, To be a current infection. And the key was then that this current infection and he had only three you remember syphilis psychosis, which is fixable disease, human papilloma virus. And what do you call it? Sora, which is a broad term for more than 80% or seven eight of all his afford his chronic diseases, miasmatic diseases that you need to two things. The one thing is an event from outside, which is an infection. So some kind of microbe, he didn't have the terminology for the top at that point. And of course, an already existing weakness if you like in susceptibility. But for handyman the key thing was really this break in tour. Let's say the safety of the organism through an external event, lagging infection that was not dealt with properly. For example, in syphilis, it was treated with mercury compounds and basically just the outside was suppressed and so on. And so he saw coming out of that. All the secondary symptoms. This was then basically the ground for the chronic diseases. That was his idea. And so of course he already had the idea of susceptibility, but really importantly, he did acknowledge that there are simply called them inimical forces which could invade our bodies and that we need to be in a sense ready for it. And of course we know how we can be ready for them mainly in Hanuman's case, mainly through lifestyle and diet. And then of course, homeopathic treatment when needed, but that's in short, is that, and I guess with the germ theory and I w I would probably see it also in that way, that I do believe that can be definitely a highly contagious and also dangerous pathogens. But equally that the better we are set up in our own health the more we will be able to deal with them and there should be not so much drama involved, that's really the key, so I think it's a balance and it is more, ultimately more with susceptibility. So if we set ourselves up well, and we are healthy and we have good emotional, mental health and physical. And then of course we are much less likely to get anything or recover from it very quickly. So that would be my take on it. And it's really, basically it's auto Hanuman's take, and I think I just really want to stress that quickly if that's the place to do the the fast sidedness of Harnaman. And I would, I really want to say it right here, because this was of course, a process with the homeopathy. And also the first thing was this millionaire principle and the dilution and put integration. All of this is fascinating. However, what became really much clearer to me, and this is my own journey really were more than 20 years. And is the Harnaman at a time where nobody talked about this in medicine acknowledged the energetic nature, not only of medicine and and off disease, but actually. Energetic nature of life, and this is not at all mumble jumble or something like that, but that of course goes right back. And here we are talking Remi hermetic principles and it goes right back to the John's gospel and so on. And so on in the beginning, it, the light, in the beginning you have light, you have energy, you have sound, and this is what the word is composed of. And Honoman got through this and this, I find absolutely fascinating, not because he sat in the study and made it up or thought of, under metaphysician or something, but he did it through experiments. And that's when you realize, oh my God, we got crude materials substances, which we can open up through a particular way of making remedies out of them. And we basically unlocked this energetic potential. And and then now we know there is no end to the opening up of this energetic potential because we have not found any limit to our potency scale. And these things are so mind boggling and so fascinating. And for me, it clearly says that ha and these things take a long time. When something happens in the spirit realm, it takes a long time before it percolates down into the material around. And, but Honamin had it all set out. And in my opinion, there's only one rational future for all of us. And this is that we finally fully acknowledged. I want energetic nature or light-based nature, our sound nature, all of this, and that's what I find just absolutely fascinating with Honamin and that and he isn't that way really our best guide still, to all of this, so yeah. I love that. And I'm actually Remy and I were having a discussion the other day. I don't know if you can remember where I was explaining to you about how remedies are made and how, when they have less materials, substance, and they become stronger and you get it back to me using a good music analogy. Can you remember that? I don't remember exactly what it was that I said, but I think the general idea is that as you I think that I was also referring to the concept that is in the quantum physics explanation of it. So I'm not I'm not a I don't fully accept the quantum mechanics and quantum theory explanation of this idea specifically. So I was referring to the idea of entanglement, right? So they were saying basically that any subatomic particles, so therefore anything larger than a subatomic particle would have a certain level of the same dynamic, but basically that when any subatomic particle comes in contact with another subatomic particle, that they can separate at any distance and then something can happen to one and it will be instantaneously received by the other particle. So the explanation of that is that it's this instantaneous action at a distance that there's, they I think that Einstein called it like spooky or something like that. He called like spooky action at a distance or something, but it doesn't really, it's not really that it's not absurd to think that if you have a small substance inside of a lot of the other like in the water, for example, you were saying, and as it all contacts, what it's really doing, it's not that it's particles, it's just that it's becoming in tune with it. It's actually resonating. So this actually comes down to the fundamental perspective of quantum physics, that everything is the smaller that you go down into stuff. You're going to find more particles, but I don't think that's actually correct. And I don't think that there's anything to actually prove that. I think that what happens is that we create models that are based off of geometric structures that we see in the manifest physical world, which is actually. A more dense crude version of the principle, a theoric realm. So as a result of having these, all these little pieces coming into contact with each other, what you're really doing is you're actually creating a sympathetic resonance at a very essential level, which is another representation of what happens within like field theory, with, or within the field with electricity and magnetism, is that the smaller, the space is the higher, the capacitance in Ralph. You said something about the P the potency and that you can remove it, but it's becomes more potent because what I think is actually happening there is that it's it's a sort of a representation of the macro cosmic and microcosmic principle of it's mentalism so it's really what it's getting down to. It's getting to the fundamental of it. There's a lot, I, that I was following along all the stuff you were saying so much, there's a depth of knowledge there. But I think that the, I think what the analogy that I was saying was basically that everything within that substance becomes tuned because it becomes more essential to the actual you're taking out the overtones and you're in, you're creating the more fundamental resonance that's actually substantial to the to the actual material that you started off with. And I say something to that, Lisa, I think it's absolutely fascinating Remy what you're saying and what I find really fascinating is that you're not an expert in homeopathy possibly the fundamentals, but what you described is exactly what we say happens with a higher potency. So what happens actually is that the precision is increasing the higher you go, and that's what I heard is you saying, going to the fundamental, so the higher you go, the clearer, you have to be the, know the more you need to know what you're doing, and then it can really hit the target where, nobody would expect not materialists would expect any kind of meaningful result, but that's exactly what you say. It's the path you could say for the establishing, the similarity becomes narrower and narrower because is indeed all stripped down now to to the fundamentals. If I understood you correctly. Yeah. That's yeah. And I'm really, I'm not well-read in that subject at all. I've not written a book on it at all in that, but also you said also something else, which is fascinating because there is a project. I don't really know what happened to him. Lisa, maybe you still Orlando Milgrim do you remember Dr. Lana Milgrom is. No, he's a British homeopaths and physical, and his name is Dr. Lionel Milgrom and he talked exactly about this entanglement. This was his take on entanglement. So anyway, Remy, I find this fascinating, you're obviously picked up already some of the essentials of how homeopathy works. How it's at least one way of explaining it. Yeah, very easily. Yeah, I I think it's really something else that I noted that was interesting is that like Lisa and you both mentioned that health was like the thing that made you realize, oh, wait, if this isn't right then there must be a whole lot of other stuff that's connected to it. That really isn't correct. And it's really interesting because that actually, that was my last step health was my last step. Like it was all the, it was everything else that led up to that understanding. It was, that was the recognition of oh, wait. So that means that like the what we consider to be a healthy body or healthy mind and spirit and body is to me was the conclusion. It was the ultimate. It was the ultimate conclusion to the recognition of what I had been seeing in the world. So that it was, it's really interesting that it's like, The same, the same understanding, but almost coming from the exact opposite polarity, which is another concept of the hermetic principles, right? It's like the concept of polarity, especially if you look into Walter Russell's work and how you mentioned light, right? It's the fundamental nature of everything that we see really go down to it as light and light is basically just a, it's a coaxial circuit. So it's a transverse coaxial circuit. So it's that it's within the created realm within the realm of the existence world. What you have is essentially a constant flux of polarity it's balanced, rhythmic, balanced interchange. So that, that, that's really interesting. I see that, that parallel with that as far as like how I entered this sort of, this field at what you just said, Remi, I actually didn't connect connected at the time, but now I see, of course this was my pulling, the first threat of the fabric, with homeopathy. And you could you in a sense that was one of the letter later threats. You pulled with help, but now, and I just want to tell a quick story. Now I fully understand, so what happened was, so I got into this homeopathy. Okay. And and then I remember the very strong reaction of my brother and my brother. We have very, we were, unfortunately I must say now we were always very close. We were like twins and really at a very strong and and good relationship. And we felt completely out of a COVID and have fallen out. But it's one of those I nearly think tragedies now. Seriously, it's not good. However, when I think about it all these years ago, when I got into homeopathy, I remember his. Disbelief and anger. That was it. It's disbelief and anger. And I remember as he shouted at me and he said, Ralph, you're a rational person. How can you get into this kind of nonsense? It was from unthinkable that somebody, whom whatever had to do with academia or something like that would get into that. And now I can see, after all these years, where have we ended up, this was a culture clash, which was ready to happen, so to speak, but it was all very benign and it was all doable. And it was even after a while it was tolerable. My brother accepted them. They even took some homeopathy now and again, but basically all mainstream medicine. Which was fine, but now I realize, oh my God, we've really come full circle in complete alienation and complete breakdown of communication about basically you would say, what is the word made of, what kind of world we live in. And I think that is the kind of big dividing line now between people, yeah. I think that a really good example of that actually is it does go back to this concept of the miasm, the miasma it's it's like you can, it preceded, it proceeded the onset of germ theory and the subsequent onset of what, what could be called terrain theory. So I think it's really interesting because it's like, if you follow it and you mentioned tradition and lineage, and I think that's actually really incredibly important when it comes down to trying to understand how you have reached a present conclusion or perspective. So you look at the the idea of you, you said, could it basically explain some form of pathogenic, exposure. And I'd say that it's almost could be equally explained by even just the concept of like toxin in the air. So terrain theory is basically all toxins into your body and then your body has to deal with getting rid of them and that they explain it that that it's, the microbes are actually indogenous they're here. All right. And that they transform and they mutate based off of exposure to the toxins that are actually external. So it's like this feedback loop that occurs. I think that it's really interesting because it's we're now dealing with that on a wide scale. We have the people who are like, no, like I wouldn't, I would almost say that the miasm almost explains environmental toxicity, noxious gases, or, chemical. And then the germ theories are saying like, oh no, that's where it was. And I think that there's this kind of weird disconnect is dialectic. That's occurring with that. And I think what's really interesting is that they're both very materialistic. So they're both very oh, this little material gets in your body and makes you sick. And the other ones, no, those are already in you, but this other material shows up in your body and gets you sick. So it's we have a description of something occurring, but we don't really have an explanation. I think that's, I honestly think that terrain, the terrain perspective gives a more thorough explanation because it explains why the microbes are around and it explains the role of them. And it's it, I think some people go as far as saying they're all just our best friend. And I think that they're just a part of the scheme and I don't, but I also think that there's a whole other level to it as well, that I think German dramatic new medicine touches upon to a certain extent, but it, which is that concept of where the mind is and where the spirit is and how that contributes to the whole meal you write. And I just think that it's a, it's really interesting, cause it's like you said, it, the seeds were planted, it was already there. It was ready, it was ready to unroll and unraveled to what it is right now. And I think that that sort of that perceived dichotomy is really it's deep within it. And I think that maybe the next step would be to understand that I don't think that, maybe it's even further than just this verse, that, there's that other element, the fifth element, that needs to be understood as well, other than just the physical. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And just very quickly, you said this word Remy and that's fascinating because with Harnaman, although I said the precursor to the drunk theory, how the man was always very clear that we are not looking at something material, he was always clear, these are subtle, energetic forces, he couldn't name, but he would, he compared it to magnetism. For example, he talked about gravitational forces, so invisible forces, but which are clearly present, which are clearly having an effect on our environment. So we had a great chance, at the beginning of modern medicine. And Hanaman really was the developer of modern medicine. You could say to develop a fully energetic model. It was all there to be had, and that is of course still the big deal today with what a medicine, because they need to insist on the materialistic nature in order to basically sell the drugs, otherwise it wouldn't work, but equally Harmon also of course had the concept of protection. So a prophylaxis. So you looked at this vaccination topic and he was not completely averse to it. He thought, okay, this is interesting because it may be. Prevent disease. So if we can prevent disease, we like that. However, he saw immediately, this is absolutely disastrous the way they go about it, with these crude substances toxicity into the body and so on. And you always said, look, we don't need to do that. We got something else, but now we are at the stage. If we would say this publicly Remi, we would be, it's nearly now a criminal offense. We would claim a look, if we have a pandemic or something like that, we can help here with homeopathic remedies. And we we may well be able to prevent some of the worst outcomes. But if you say this, as you can imagine, though, if you say this publicly, and that's maybe another topic we could get into how really opinions have simply been criminalized and how we we are supposed to shut up because, as if we are criminals and do something like destroying the fabric of society or something like that, this has gone in a way now, which is clearly insane, but anyway, I think the the study on the Cuban, it was the leptospirosis and they did do a study. Can you S can you summarize it briefly? The people listening, because I think it's so fascinating that we have a, we do have a study that shows that home surely. So I can do this quick end of what I want to say is, of course you can imagine this is also then hotly debated and so on. But what we know is the Finlay Institute in Cuba they. It's a homeopathic Institute, medical orthopedic Institute. And they were looking for a solution to the leptospirosis, which a pandemic or epidemic they have every year in Cuba. And it's always in the wet season and so on. And it's basically a bacterial disease. Disease comes from the same family, like syphilis parakeets, and and then they decided, because basically they failed with conventional medicine that they will try a double approach. And this is the homeopathic formula of using the leptospirosis itself, which is we call that a Nosode plus some batch flower remedies for the particular peculiar mental states, emotional states. These patients go in and they had, really such an enormous resounding success. It was unbelievable. That basically the death rate went down to zero and all those were ill recovered very quickly. It was, Incredible, and they ran that for a few years as far as I know with great success, and the result ultimately was as often with these things that then it all got closed down, and I think it was the first trade arrangements they made with America. And one of the demands by the Obama administration was actually to close this Institute down, so that they don't continue the work along those lines, but this is what happens. But we don't need to only look at Cuba. If we go to India, for example, I lived in India for a year. What sorts of the involved in hospitals and so on its own and when there's a pandemic or an epidemic, the first thing they do is they get a group of homeopathic doctors together and they are now the ones who organize and structure, so to speak the intervention, the medical intervention and the conventional doctors, they, in that sense follow the homeopathic doctors, because it's well known that homeopathy since Hanuman's time is so very effective in dealing with epidemics, so there's a great tracking is red, of course Lisa with Dr. Unreason and Canada, he's done tremendous work on epidemic diseases and homeopathy and the evidence, and he calls it the weight of evidence, an as yet unpublished book, unfortunately, but really the weight is enormous. There is no doubt about that, anyway, yeah, I think as you said, We had it all there right at the start, but unfortunately I guess the whole, a whole nother podcast, but the history of modern medicine and Rockefeller setting up with his luxuries and all of that. So yeah, it could have been very different outcome, I don't think it's any like small divergence that they, that it's, I don't think that it's any small point that the divergence from like magnetism and electricity was created at that point. That's really interesting. That's something like, again I, this is something that I do have very little research into itself. It's something that I'm really just now getting interested in. And so these it's just it's wild to see and hear somebody who has so much historical context for the field of study of homeopathy explaining these things. And I'm like, I, that makes sense to me on, on, on a certain level, especially cause I, I really do see everything as operating with a certain level of resonance and explaining these things. It was right there. It's just wild to me. I, it's something I'm gonna have to sit with for awhile. It's just opened a big door. So I just, yeah, that's just really interesting. That's great. And just a little addendum to this Remi, Harlem one was for example, also very much into mesmerism, so he knew that he already knew that the pills he's using are really. The carrier for information, if you like, and and with a mesmerism, he gave very precise instructions of how to do it. Even describe the person who is best suited to apply the mesmerism, and he said it is a wish people with, with a little sex drive that seemed to have been important, whether it's where their own sexual desire sex, sexual drive is low at somehow. And that they were the best people to transmit these these energies, and even gave suggestions of how to end widowed remedies by certain strokes, you applied to the body and so on, so handyman was fully aware of all of these energetic phenomenon, So are, you're going to have to get like reading cause Hanuman's would you say that's a good, the best place to start route, but people interested that really want to dive deep, but still, perhaps new to I think for Remy a handyman I think would be an obvious candidate, some find him hard going and so on, which has pity. But I think for, harden is such a giant seriously. We forget that we had only one of him and and he is still the man, so we've never had anybody who, had a more at a broader view and a better understanding of homeopathy, so that sort of sounds yes, that's what it sounds like. So if, before we move on to other things I can say, for me, I think we've talked quite a bit about homeopathic philosophy, but if you could just impart one bit of knowledge into the masses, this, the general maybe sleeping masses, what would it be like? For me, I'd like them to realize that healing takes place from something that is non-chemical. And I think if people could genuinely grasp that they would be perhaps a light bulb switch going off for them. Is that something that you think, oh, I just wish people could, realize this or that. Yes. I could, if I say this, no. So you see, this is also a conclusion I've come to after so many years. So it's of course also it kind of development of myself and in a sense, I said it already, but this is to me, the key and that certain things Remi said, which makes me think how important this is again, and this is truly our energetic nature. And then. We need to completely leave behind this materialistic paradigm. It's done, it's over, it's gone, that's not what we are. And homeopathy basically in all its principles understands the energetic nature. And then you go that step further. And this is really what Remy was also talking about. And you mentioned this hermetic principle of mentalism, that really, we we are looking at treatment, which, we hold all the keys in ourselves, and if we are capable of, if you like disciplining our mind, if we are capable of of using our own faculties, intellectual, mental, emotional faculties, and so on, we are on the road already to self healing, and to put it really in a sort of in one sentence, what for me has become clear. And this is also my experience as a practitioner and working with people wherever you bring consciousness, And that seems to be the trick you solve something, you you are able to resolve the disease, and we know this of course from psychotherapy and so on. So we take that for granted, but it goes much further than that, and I think it's really conscious awareness and that ultimately means of course, being really completely in the present. And when you are completely in the present, you are, you cannot be connected to a higher source. That is also the experience. I'm sure if people who meditate regularly and pray and so on its own, so I know that sounds now not very practical, fortunately, be able to want to get told me up, but that's really what I would like to say with some urgency, because we are now again at the brink of a completely new step of human evolution. And sometimes I have the sense that what we are seeing, the oldest theater, which is happening now is actually an attempt to distract us from that. If I say they, whoever they are, but they know what's going on, they know that humans that we are and is a group of us and the big group, we are on the cusp of something big, I don't know where the Remy had that, but I talked to people and we obviously worked with a lot of people and work together. Many of us have now the experience that our access and, I want access to, let's say the spirit round is a very crisp, it's very easy to access. And for me, there is no doubt that higher forces are at work here at the same time. There always are, of course but these higher forces are really revving up now and we can link in with them and we can support them, through our own meditation, through own prayer and so on. And so I would say it's really ultimately about consciousness, and integrating consciousness more and realizing that we are embedded in a much bigger consciousness and that ultimately everything you could say is consciousness. And for me, it's clear that it also is obviously intelligent. That there is an intelligence at work here, which we of course cannot understand. But that it is clearly not random and haphazard. What is happening here and also, and this is by the way, one of the lines that tell me nearly every day, the creator has not lost control of his or her own creation, so they create tricks or the creator or whatever, take your pick has not lost control of the creation. So something big is happening and, I find it. Despite having a queasy feeling in my stomach. And I have had this over the last few days actually. And I don't quite know what this is about. I find this incredibly exciting, this is something we have such a great chance now of a breakthrough. That's how it feels to me a consciousness breakthrough, and we just need to keep at it, and we don't even have to do much. That's the beauty, and one of the first things we need to do is to say, no, just drop this quite simple, oh, we have to. No, thank you very much. Not at this stage properly, yeah. But that's what I would want to say. That's puts of course homeopathy in a much, much bigger context, but that's that's for me where it's at with homeopathy really. I think that that's really interesting. Cause you said that it really comes when you, the one thing you said when whatever you bring your consciousness to is w wherever you bring your consciousness, you solve a problem there. And it, that's like in line with that statement of if through ignorance a problem was created and it is not through ignorance that a problem will be solved right. Only, or you can't solve a problem in the same mindset that created in other words. And so you said it all comes down to consciousness, really, if you were just sum it up in that would be very internalized, right? So that's what, it's all, you have to figure out how to do this from the fundamental, the, from the plane of cause instead of the plane of effect. And you said that doesn't sound very practical. And I said, I, in my mind, I was like actually that it's not practical under the current paradigm where everything is given to you from a being outside and everything that external we, everything is about, oh, what do I get from that person to fix me? What do I get from that person in order to have a peaceful life? What do we, what powers do we give these people in order for us to live in a society of order? And all of these things are an externalization. The solution that you highlighted it and that's really, like that's right, is that's like the whole theme, right? That's whole theme of what will you save and start off saying, this is about right. It's about your personal responsibility. And it's that could be said a million ways, but I think that the way you highlighted that, it's just it's it really showed, cause it's like most of the world would say that's not practical, but it's not practical under a paradigm that is actually absurd and impractical. Very good and Remy, if I just add just that little bit and thank you. Yes, of course it is very practical. I'm going to just think about it. What you just said, this externalization and so on it is of course, extremely practical. If we would just start by bringing everything in and basically starting with us that not, that does not mean to become completely solipsistic or something like that, and completely self-centered, but really just not wait basically what that means when you bring consciousness and you're dealing with your shit, and if you're dealing with your shadow, so that what is usually unacknowledged and you don't have obviously conscious access to it. And it's a hard, it's a hard process for all of us to get there. But what we realize after wireless that suddenly the world is not to blame for where we are. Suddenly we are not angry anymore about these people do this to us or something like that, and the ultimate stage will be, of course, and I'm getting there slowly that also they disappear, all those who want to do all these bad things to us, and they have these better plans and so on and on, and so I think that is indeed very practical. If we just start looking at what is it I bring to the world, what is it I can bring to the world and what I actually, how can I make myself and my life and with that also all the people around. Better, more integrated people, and then we lose, of course, if we lose more and more of this shadow, then actually we are also going towards freedom, liberation and so on, and this is the kind of work we need to do. And it's hardcore work. We know this, but we have so many brilliant tools, most of them illegal, but we have so many, just as an insight mentioning psychedelics, this is how you can deal very effectively with with your shadow, and of course, in a context, which is a healing context and which is a therapeutic context and so on, but anyway, I think, we as a group that there's so much knowledge now and so much power and so much strength and so much enlightened views. And that gives me a lot of hope actually, for what is to come, because it is, you cannot suppress these things forever. It is impossible. And I feel, that's my sense, my sense is really, we have this tipping point. Now we have, we are close and they, if you like, know it, they know it, that we are coming out of something really big now. And that's w where this is going, but yes, in that way, of course it is practical. It is practical then of course, also to sit down on your cushion for about an hour a day and just get into this quiet space, be in stillness, see, what's come up, see, look at yourself, and then of course doing whatever you need to do during the day, but yes. Thank you. Thanks Remy. Yeah. Yeah. If I might add one more thing to comment on that you said it's, it is about recognizing what you do as an individual, but not becoming solved cystic, right? So this idea of the solve cystic ideas, like there's just me and there's no one else. And so everything is just a, it's just a prediction of your own mind. That's that's actually the opposite of individual and individualism and I've pointed this out and pretty much every little podcast conversation and chat that I've done is that what individual really, you can look at individualized being a combination of two words, in meaning not right. So like ineffective, not effective in ability, inept you, so you have in not, and then dividends divided. So it is to be an individual really is to be, is to not be divided it's so it's to not consider yourself a separate part from the whole, so it's not to become an atomized separate thing. There's just me. No, there's everything. And then you, as an individual, recognizing that you are integrally tied to everything that occurred. Internally and externally in that separation is really only, just a matter of degree, not actually a difference in principle. Absolutely fascinating. And Lisa, if you allow me, I would like to say something because you may be aware of him or not, but that was a great French thinker. It tailored the shutdown, his cold, and he was mostly active in the 1920s, 1930s. Fifties. And he died somewhere 1960 something. But the unique thing about he's a priest and an evolutionary biologist, and he contributed to both fields equally, you could say, and he actually kept both in the balance. So he kept his priest a job. If that's the right description, all his life was basically banned by the church, by the Catholic church. His writings were not allowed to see the light of day, but he put up with this because he wanted to keep this loyalty to his church. And he knew that his writings would be published at some point basically when he's dead. And and then the other thing is that he was an evolution of evolutionary biologists and made some really very important discoveries in that field. So we as highly respected there as well. What I want to say, Remy, what you just described, you see his vision of evolution was the following. He thought that it is inevitable. That we will be involved in a process of collectivization if that's the right word or collectivism, so we are going as a mankind and he said this in the 1920s, towards the collective, he said it cannot be helped. We will become more and more aware of ourselves as a species. And so we will also become in one sense, more and more collective beings, however, and global beings. So you saw the globalization, you saw it all unfold, but he said, this can only be a success. Collectivization or whatever we want to call the collectivism, whatever the right term is. If we become fully developed individuals fully, to the highest point of becoming individuals. And once we do that, then there isn't, you could nearly say an automatic merging with not just the collective them, but also of course, with the divine, and this is exactly what you just described, that there will be no division anymore, but that was his vision. And it was, it's a wonderful vision. And he also said, it can all go wrong. Of course, and it can go wrong if indeed people are not aware or not. You could now say waking up because what will then happen? He says, external forces will collectivize us. And he saw this could be the end of the story. This is very serious. He saw a good end to it, but he said, if people do not come on board and realize that this is what we need to do now, really hyper individualism, you could say to the point of then complete merging with the rest, he said, then it can go wrong. And I think that's exactly where we at, but that's what I feel we can go wrong. But it could also just blow the whole old paradigm completely apart, blow it to pieces. And we then we'll laugh about it for the rest of our lives. That's also a scenario, yeah. And every evil that has to be done has to perpetrate itself under the presence of a good. So in other words in actual principles, so it actually has to be presented to the psyche as something that is beneficial. So as you see, like a an enforcement of collectivism being super imposed and it's, if it isn't done. So under, under actual voluntary, your actual volitional willingness then it will. I, that just, it makes complete sense though. The way that, that I actually, I have a book by a tailor discharging, but I haven't read it yet. I just found it. And I was like, this looks interesting. So it's over there on my shelf, but it's really interesting that you pointed out that it's basically it's going to go that way. It's just a matter of whether it will be done because it was willing or because it's being forced. And I think that we're seeing a lot of the force aspect of our evolution into recognizing I guess you could say recognizing inherent integration. But I do. Yeah, that's really, I think that there is that possibility of coming online to it under the perspective of individual willingness and acceptance, of the, of that principle. But it's just, I think that's really interesting. I have to read into that a little bit more, but that really rings. It rings a bell right there. So yeah, very good. What I wanted to ask, I like to keep it light and positive, but just to dip into the more perhaps, to prepare ourselves mentally for where things could go, I think. People in the UK in particular have been lowered into a bit of false sense of security that things are back to normal. The millennials seem to be thinking that things were back to normal and that's the end of it. They will have complied had their second vaccine, whatever, and now it's all fine. And I was thinking I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think that's the way things are going to go. And obviously even today, but overnight things can suddenly change when the Botswana bear came out yesterday or whatever. I was like, oh, here we go. Waiting for this, like you were saying, when we, things feel like they're in limbo, it felt like here a little bit. And suddenly the PM makes his 5:00 PM conference tonight and you think, oh God, here we go. Face small Sabbat. There's much more restrictions coming in. He's threatening that Christmas might be canceled again. So I guess, do you have a feel for how things might go or, just to mentally prepare us or are you not even going there? And you're just like, I'm in my own sort of world right now and I've got to not block it out, but, to create my own world. So where are you at with that? If you are happy with it. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I think that where things are gonna go overall, it doesn't really factor into what I know I need to do. My point in doing the things that I know that I need to do, which is, learning to understand the nature of this realm as much as possible. And also what my actual not in the sense that I think that this is important to, to distinguish between. But like the content understanding of duty to the collective is the morality. I think that duty to truth is what constitutes what actually will be practical and actually will be harmoniously manifest. Proportional to the amount of people who are understanding that inherent under that inherent knowledge. So my point is to do what it is that I know that I'm supposed to do, which is to integrate my, my, my living in a way that's more harmonious with eternal and natural universal principles. So if things, I could say that, like I could calculate based off of probability proportion and what I'm seeing play out. I think that overall there's going to be a balance to the scales, but I would say realistically, just based off of the actions that have already been actualized by this point, there's going to be consequence cause everything in the, everything operates based off of cause and effect con there's a consequence in consequence just means with, and then sequence right. Con sick in which is, I think based in the word Quint's, which is to count, right? So it's just the sequence of events when this thing happens, something else happens as a result that's proportional to it. So I think that there are probably some pretty I guess what we could call on the negative side of the spectrum re consequences that are going to manifest. I think that to a certain extent, we'll see that happen. I think that at this point it's fairly. Obvious that there's going to be some type of, fallout to a certain extent whether we're talking about because of a chemical or because of this, or because of a, whatever material thing we're saying is the cause of this illness. I think that really what's actually at play is humanity's decision-making process in regards to not being able to truly integrate with the laws of nature. And I think that will require some type of compensation. I think at this point, now my point in doing what I'm doing, isn't just so I can establish a good world for myself and my friends and my family, but just because I know that I have to do certain things. So to me, it's like whether it turns out this way or that I know that there's something that I have to do. And that is to continually restructure my actions and diminish beliefs in increase, understanding, and remove as many false belief systems as I possibly can so that I can remove the veil of Maya of deception so that I could, as much as I possibly can in whatever timeframe I have integrate that action in harmoniously. That's that's where I am. I'm at with the whole where's it might go or where it might go or where it could, ideally or negatively. I that's I think my. Where I've been centered on the last, at least the last few days. So very good. Remy, it's a, it warms my heart to listen to you is fantastic. And probably, I would say the same thing, or I would say something similar content wise, but maybe in a slightly different way, but I get exactly where you're coming from. I would like to describe this. It's more, it's Nearly a sensation, I can feel physically. And what I feel is that two parallel movements going on and one is if I want to go there, very frightening and threatening and depressive. And yeah, and that I think gives me that queasy feeling. And it is increasing now over the last few days, at a very quiet spell and now it's increasing. And of course we hear these things about Germany and we know that now really tightening the screws, so that's because I need to do, they have only one direction, we need to keep that in mind that only one direction to go and they cannot go back. That's it, they have they have decided what they want to do, and you could even say respect, because they basically said, okay, we press the button. Let's go. We run it now. And we now know we on this process, so that's the external process. And then if I go into that process, I lose my center very quickly and I get very mental. I get very virtual, I get very abstract and so on. And so on. I have a great example at home with my wife. Nicholina she has been steady all the way through, right from the beginning steady, not being distracted by the news, nothing like that. She knew this is about internal work. This is about light work. And that is the other thing the other movement, so to speak in. It gives me a lot of optimism, because there is a sense of, this will be good. This will have a good ending and it can only have a good ending. That's the kind of sense I get, simply because maybe because what we are doing and what we are feeling, and we have now this great opportunity to recognize exactly what you said, remedies these natural laws and to integrate ourselves into that. So we have, it is time of revelation to, in the sense of recognizing where we have gone wrong, where we are going wrong how utterly perverse this whole system is. In a sense you could say you couldn't make it up. You know what I mean? Yes, you need the devil to actually create a system like that. I'm sorry. And I think that, that's what we're looking at here, and what you said about the compensation, I find interesting that it's a good word. IRMI in the old Testament and I love the old Testament and they use the word correction that I don't know the Hebrew, but in the in the English it's correction and what happened to the Israeli people again and again, to the Jewish people is they got corrected, because they lost their way so many times, over thousands of years, again and again, they did the wrong thing if you like, and then the heavy hand of God came in and mixed the whole thing up and basically correct. It brought them back, on, on on the right path. And I feel this is now something which is happening. We've completely lost the plot as mankind. I feel we are completely disconnected from the earth as well as from the divine. Where are we now? We are in this messy, materialistic plane when nobody has an idea anymore. What, why they here, what they should be doing from maybe having holidays and drink a bit and this and that. And, it's a lost, seriously, if you look at it like that, we are lost completely lost. To do so what can we do my path really wasn't. So for the last 10 days, that has very much intensified and I think it will stay like this now. So I'm keeping out of the news. I'm keeping out of even my favorite channels in all of this, and there's this one Greek, Greek word in the new Testament. It's going to be And this is basically a steadfastness, you patient patient endurance. And that sounds very passive, but it's not really what is meant by this is you stick. And that's what I had Remy says you stick to your truth. What you know, to be true. This is what you can stick to LFAs is wonderful. Greek word. You stick to that and all you need to do. And this is also in revelation. This is what Christ tells us direct. All you need to do is to do this right to the end. You just stick with your truth. You stick with what you know is true, and you will not be deviated from this. And this is, I feel at the moment, all we can do, but it has so much power because this kind of attitude will light up other people. There's no doubt about it, but when the external become so loud, so overwhelming and wanting to drag us into chaos, because that seems to me to just say, Lisa, I have the feeling that it's the next stage they're going to really drag us into chaos. So that also those who are at the moment on a quiet space and can organize themselves will be also largely disrupted. I think this is happening, but the best thing we can do now is to go into a quiet space, strong space and really strengthen our beliefs. And for me, that means in a very old fashioned way to strengthen my faith, and that means seriously to have complete trust in this process without a shadow of a doubt. And I'm not there, but I feel it's getting closer and closer to the point that there is no fear left whatsoever, nothing but just the trust in this process, this will all end well. And I feel, or not even end, we're not even being married to the outcome, but just that, we have this one great example. We have this one great advantage. We can now live out. And we can live it nearly publicly. You can say, and it's not often that we have that. Who wants to know your truth? In the society we lived in before there was not even a big topic now. Also the way we meet now, meeting Remy, we don't need many words in order to connect and I don't know whether you got these experiences, but even now I met a neighbor. It's two words. Yeah. I've never met her before we just passed in the corridor. Two words we knew we must meet up. It's that simple, and I think that's this again, this is how we spread the information and how we spread the light. And it's very infectious, because once people get in touch with the truth and with essentially with fundamentals, as Remy says this, you don't want to give up that place again, for, a nice cozy, whatever, life or something like that. Now we know now the value of life and what we are here for, and Hey, this is a great privilege to, to be able to do that. I think, yeah. I love that. It's showing it's really showing the value of authenticity. I think that in by, yeah. In almost backwards way. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. This is insane, actually. Cause if someone had told me like two years ago, I'd be doing this and speaking, so publicly about how I think I would be like, no, it still had that judgment. And it's so liberating not to give a crap basically about any, what anyone thinks when you know you, that you are doing the right thing. And then connecting with lovely people as well, that are like minded, it gives you that strength as well. And I think it does spread, like you say, other people then start to get courage to speak up and an afternoon, just one thing, Lisa, just exactly what you said. And again, therefore our drop is easy. We, all we need to do is now to listen to our conscience, and I feel this is where for me also, the debates have ended now, and also with my brother and whoever is important in my life, the debates I feel have ended. And now it's really just about conscience, follow your conscience. If you are happy with that, if you, if your conscience can take it that maybe even five-year-olds that children without any reason whatsoever, no medical reason will be injected with these. If your conscience can take that and you don't say no to that, okay, fine, go ahead. But this is a price. There is a price to pay for that, and I think therefore it's so easy. We have, again, this access, we have this brilliant thing in us. It's called country. Oh, direct connection to the divine. We just need to activate it and listen to it again, simple thing and conscience. And I liked to look at that word and it's like breaking it down to its constituent elements you have con which means with which means to know that's the, the Latin for no, it literally has the word science in it almost, it does con Shin's conscience. It's con it's with knowing to know within to know it's the ultimate, it's the ultimate form of knowledge. It's fantastic. It's direct. It's the direct connection to that. Yeah. Thank you. Fantastic. And it has gone beyond that now, like when this first started if we spoke about this briefly, I think the other week when we caught up, but, you just knew that you knew that it wasn't right. It just resonated, or this is just not the truth. The whole COVID that panic, I had that just panic because my family, I felt my family that we're awake, we're buying into it initially. Like only they only like the first week or two, and then I think they saw through it. But this absolute panic and feeling like I had to try and, wake people up or convince people that, to see what I'm overseeing, but it's gone beyond that now. I feel like whatever I was doing. A year ago or how I felt internally, this or desperate, like I must share knowledge or try to change people's minds because that's not right. People make their own mind up, but it's a different space now for me personally, I feel like that's what you were saying. It's the inner work, and acceptance that people now have to choose their own path. One thing I wanted to ask if that's all right, just, how you woke up, so to speak, we spoke briefly at the beginning about the homeopathy and, Remy shared on previous podcasts about how Remi, became aware things aren't necessarily what they seem. And it's almost like the flip side it's finished with health for Remy, and I think that's quite often you have this all truth community and the health community, and this kind of emerging as one, which is good. How did you wake up? Yeah, sure. Again, slow process bit by bit by bit still continuing. And I remember, I came to England in 88, 19 88 and 1986 first, but then I settled in England, 1988 and and, I was very critical to what's my own country to what's German, and I had a slightly idealistic, not idealistic. How do you say a little bit of a romantic image of Britain, in terms of fantasy democracy, this sort of thing, intolerance and, eccentricity, all these nice things. And and I just loved it. I loved England, right? From the moment I stepped on Bridgetown order, I was never an angry of heart, but I loved it. I loved, I still love it. I still love being here. And, but what happened was when the first health wall was that was really when I started to awake, because I thought, it really, I know that will sound to you really naive, but I thought this is all propaganda. It was that simple. It was. What are they? This is the BBC. I thought it was like a balance, but it was like all, suddenly we are in war and it's a war probate. And suddenly you couldn't say certain things and so on. And that really, that was the door opener for me, but I then thought, oh, hang on. This is this is not right. And then of course, nine 11 came along and I was standing at the university and I remember going past these TV screens, we have this media center downstairs, and I went past these TV screens and I saw this tower, with the smoke and so on. And I was just, quite a mesmerized by this. And I sat there and I didn't even realize it was a Spanish program. We switched to anything, just tell us what is this, and I thought first, oh, it must be a fiction. Must be what is this? And then the second plane, if it was, hit the tower. And so I saw the second thing live and so on, and that was obviously one of those moments for me, and really it then unraveled from that. I cannot tell you exactly how quickly that went, but I knew immediately, this is not right. There's something not right. And clearly it turned out to be very fishy and then it went on from there, and I remember. And I would call it now really a quite funny resistance to the moon landing. It was like, no, at least I know on the moon, it was like thought and I had this moment and I looked, I remember I looked up at the moon and I thought nobody was ever on you. Was that nobody. And now I think it is it's so actually ludicrous. It's so childish even to think that we made it. They postponed it again. Didn't they to 25. Now it's 2025. You really want to say, look guys, you've got something that you made at once, look at it, it's great. Just do it again, that's all that story. So it was that. And then really once that happens, then the flood gates open, and then and then more and more came on board, what then happened was, and I think that again is the key. Th the fundamental lie it took me a while to get to the really fundamental line, the fundamental lies that this, that we live in a materialistic universe that is the most fundamental lie. And once you unravel that and we are not living in a materialistic universe then I think things fall into place very easily, and so it was really that, and homeopathy of course, had played a big part in this, that the word obviously looks really very different from a different perspective and so on. So it was yeah, I guess that was the sort of awakening, and I don't know where I will end up with this. I don't know, but anyway, so that, that was it step by step process and it's it's still continuing really. It does continue. I think there's nothing more to learn about, oh my God, could someone just fill me in on what else that missing gaps on? So I don't know if you've been down the whole but the world trade expositions and the turn of the century and all the, what happened with history and energy and you've gone down. No, I have not. You mean also Tesla and all of this, do you mean that, do you know, have you looked into that? like the original, like the first recent the most recent reset or whatever. Yeah, I've looked into it. I've considered it. I, I don't have a verdict on it, but yeah, I think that there's maybe something there to it. Can you summarize the route? So there's a, there's an idea that that some people are saying and for awhile, I guess have been that society the, like the whole world basically was repopulated at the late, in the late 18 hundreds by orphans who had been collected by all of these institutions, because there was a large catastrophe of some type over the last 250 years or so. And that the earth was repopulated in various parts of the world by the orphans of this previous world, in that there was a small group of people who were aware of what had happened. And that history was essentially a big chunk of history was, is left out. But they refabricated sort of the history of the world from there. And that all of the modern technology that was introduced in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds was actually technology that was. Highly advanced and it was already available, but it was just reintroduced at the world fairs because it had to be integrated into society. And eh, under like the under the premise that it, oh, we just discovered this, but it was actually taken from an, from ancient civilizations. And now, like all of the old buildings that we see that we said were built in the 18 hundreds were actually much older and we're using natural energy and harmonics and sound resonance water to actually harness and harvest natural energy from the planet and from the sky from the ether. And that we basically were just reintroduced to it by a sort of like a set group of I guess actors in a sense. So that's what this big idea that some people are proposing. I think that there may be something to it personally. I had not a hundred percent sold on all the aspects of it, but I do think that there might be something specifically that there's technology. I think that existed, that we are using a really crude, distorted version of, in a lot of our modern technology using like the, a dissonant version of what could be very harmonic. Okay, very good. But would that ought to Remy? This is of course technology. When we talk about Atlantis, for example, that culture or the hyper Berean culture, you mean that, going back so far, where cataclysms occurred and that got wiped out and then some of the technology and remnants survived and then they go yeah. That's the general idea. I think that there, there are people who are saying that happened as early as 250 years ago in that like the ancient history that we have is fabricated and who knows really what happened before then? Like it could go back really far or who knows. It's a very big oh who knows? And I think that's one of my, one of my issues with that, that hypothesis is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of unanswered questions there, which I guess there would be if that was the case, but yeah, it is, it's definitely referring a lot to these these proverbial civilizations, like Atlantis and Marian. Hyperforin all of these. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then the Lemurian civilization, so red Stein of course would have Stein and a lot to say about this, didn't it? Yeah. And to be honest, Steinem makes a lot of sense to me. He came into my life. He was always there, but recently it came more into my life. And and what I like is, what he said for example, is that the battle, the spiritual battle, he gives you dates. He says between 1841 and 1875, the spiritual battle in heaven was decided. And it's basically Michael and his gang. They dealt with all the He calls them. Let me think, Angela, in German angler, so it's a Greek word of angels, Anglos for angels, with Angola and they were the dark forces. So what happened, you said was it was done basically. They won the pedal. And what happened then is that these dark forces were thrown onto. And that's where they now have their field of activity. And their modus operandi is basically to infect our minds and to make us do things which are clearly against our own interests. And seriously, if I look at what's going on this mass hypnosis and that people seemingly completely instinctively, blindly do things which are clearly detrimental to them, that makes a lot of sense to me, and so he said, the good thing is the good news is that because the pedal was one on that level they cannot block the influx anymore of this divine spiritual forces because they lost it. So before that, they had a control over how much could percolate down, so to speak. But now you can just stand in the shower, if you like, in the stand, in the shadow of the divine blessings, and we only need to tap into that. That's what Steiner says, but of course, because we are, our minds are so manipulated through these dark forces that we don't even know that this is an opportunity. And I think, we can take that opportunity. We must do this consciously, it is that it's open. The heavens are open, take a shower, please. Yeah. That that entire. Dynamic actually reminded me of what you were saying that around what happened around what around 1988 and with the Gulf war. And it's really interesting because I feel like there's a cyclical presentation of these sort of dark traumatizing events that happens. And I feel like they're almost like a portal of bringing that here that, that, that presence, that, that sort of that energy signature to this, it makes it to where it's we it funnels into our psyche and then it becomes, cyclically manifested through our actions and through our, this constant this constant feedback cycle, and it's really interesting because you said that basically, he said that they're going to be, that they're using events to keep it a stranglehold on things. But the thought that came to mind is that when I when I heard you saying, is that. And you said you have to consciously be aware of these things. And I think it's a really challenging thing that happens, and it happens to everyone it's happening to everybody at right now. It's and I think that the choice comes down to either you're gonna, you're going to either wake up or you're going to be submerged and into the nightmare. And I think that it's a cyclical process of that. And so anytime that I think that once it reaches this critical mass of people saying, wait a second, hold on. On my dreaming. It's ah, you get hit with another level. And then, and it's you either have to say, wait, yeah, this is definitely like some type of weird like dream or whatever it is, some type of projected dream or you just submerged deeper into the nightmare. And I think that's, this is that those are the words that came to me when you were explaining some of that. And then also with the Steiner stuff, it's that's almost like he was explaining that exact thing in his own way. And that there are a lot of things that I've been reading a few of his books recently and listening to some of his lectures that somebody had, taken from English translations and they read them out. And some of the, yeah the accuracy is just it's astounding and it really makes sense that it would be because what I think what he was looking into is the fundamental patterns and structures of. The language of the, the great mind of the universe. And I think that, so it makes perfect sense that those ideas would come through as clearly as they did and how they would apply exactly to your life, how you came to recognize things. It's it's an exact, it's exactly to that blueprint in mind. And, but yet in a completely seemingly different way and how the, maybe some of the minor details play out, but the principles play out very clearly, which leads me to one, one more comment. And I'll cut off is that this idea, and you hear this quote go around a lot where it says, Socrates, I think he said any man who knows anything, knows he knows nothing. And I was actually reading Aristotle recently and the ma and metaphysics, and he makes this statement. And I think that maybe that, that's, that quote is taken a little bit out of context. Any man who knows anything knows he knows nothing. He was explaining in metaphysics how a wise man actually knows, and doesn't knows nothing of specifics, but he knows everything of the principles. So I think that this idea of any man who knows everything knows, he knows nothing. I think that maybe it could be. Continued on and saying that, nothing of the specifics, because the specifics aren't the real details, but you can know everything of what happened subsequent to the principal, because the principal is actually the formative blueprint of all of the various multiplicities that manifest from that simplicity of the principal. So all the attributes which are multiple and endless and eternal, when you actually look at the core pattern that constitutes all of these various multiplicities, it actually is Testament to the very simple principle that is at the core of it. Of course, all of these different, wise teachers of the past would be saying exactly what we're saying now. It's just a matter of finding the ones that, that really communicate and are able to help you download that, that principal and. Overlay it to what you actually in inherently internally understand. And then it it helps to then create that next process of output that you're able to hope, hopefully do the same for some, for someone else. I think. Yes. Yes. It's a tangent, absolutely fascinating Remy. And what I hear really is. And I don't know whether that is also your experience now, but these teachings open up. For me, the new Testament is important and I read it in the Greek. And and for me that, I always was fascinated by that. I could never call myself a Christian, and that's of course, because of the church ends, the, you cannot be part of that gang, it's that simple, and then of course I realized over time that also they, the church is not the gatekeepers, basically to keep you away from the true teachings, and what my experience is now is that all these teachings opening up, they become alive and they become actually an experience for us. And that is not an accident. I'm sure that this is for those who want to hear it's really is that for those who want to hear and want to see, they can hear now and they can see it is exactly what the teachings tell you. And we get all this confirmation now how valuable and deep these teachings truly are because they go to the absolute depth of our being, and when we are ready to be touched by that, we ought to become at the same time in vulnerable. What, what care do we have now? We tapped, we found gold, we are there, that can be the, I'm just saying that can be the experience for many now, and it's not at all an inexplicably process or something like that. There's simply something which involves, if you go more and more towards authenticity is really that simple, and Remy another thing. What you said, I don't know whether you said it in these words, but. For me the sentence, what the CIA wants said, and I never took it completely seriously, but now I take it literally and I believe them completely. Totally. And what they said was we have reached our goal. If people believe the exact opposite of what is actually true, and more and more, I really believe we are in a huge how do you, the Germans call it Insino and it's like a theater, it's like a play and we are given our roles. And that was part of my awakening by the way that I realized after what I thought I had this great role of, oh, I understand, I know what's going on. I know who the bad design, I know what they're up to and so on. But all I did was to play perfectly my role. They assigned to me, I was in the role of the opposition. I was in the role of the Knoll. I was in the role of challenging the others and calling them ignorant and dividing and all of this stuff, and so once I realized that my reality is just as virtual as the reality of those IQ used of living in this virtual propaganda reality, then things started to change, and then the real big question for me, wasn't I haven't answered that at all. And maybe you have an answer around me or at least some ideas. The real simple question for me was what is actually a reality. When do I know that I'm in touch with real. What does that mean? What is the texture of that? What is the feeling of that? Surely it is there. We know it's there, and so that became then for me, much more something worthwhile pursuing. If and in simple terms, it would mean back, just look around you, who is with you? What do people listen to people and so on, but then maybe, once one other census, this sort of sitting in stillness, there seems to be a reality opening up, which is yeah. Which is more real than, all the things we say and think, but I have no answer to that, but I'm just saying that was part of my stepping away from, being assigned my role as virtual position. And that's not, no, this is no good, that we are still part of the matrix. If you do that, you're still part of that set up, so to speak, so we need to step out of that. But anyway, yeah, that was just I dunno, whether that related to Remi yeah, it absolutely did. Yeah. And that is, that's the question yet, right? What's what is real? I think that's, I think. I think that the, this is where I think that people have. I think maybe I an a difficulty in recognizing that truth can even be acquired and it's in, in truth and reality. And I think a very simple way of saying it is in seeing it is that truth is that, which is it's that which is, and then, fallacies that, which is not, and nothing really can be. You can't have something that is, that doesn't have a principle. So a principle and an attribute are essentially the same thing. And light is an example of this. So you have light, which is the principle and illumination is the attribute. So illumination is not actually light. Illumination is the attribute attributional. We could say aftermath of the principle of light. So truth is just, is the conceptualization and the ability to recognize principle or in other words, the ability to recognize the thread that holds all of the things that we see as separate together. And we sense it and we see it and we know of it by its aftermath. Mostly we know of it by what it is not. And that was what the concept of in the ancient mystery schools and ancient Greek Egyptian, and even like Dravidian ancient and I think the language that they spoke was poly the very ancient Indian traditions. And it was the idea of what the Greeks would call apple fanaticism or via negativa in Latin or neti, which is the poly or, it's affirmation through negation. So because we live in a world of attribute or in other words, we live in a world that is essentially is a projection of a fund of the actual fundamental. We can only recognize the things that are true by recognizing what is not there. And so what is real, I think we try to nail that down and we try to define that similar to how we try to define anything else. What's this concrete thing. And it's real is the, is as in I think about the another word. That is, it's a homophobe in English, a real is the thing that is used to project a movie onto a screen. And how do you bring a projection onto a screen? Will you bring light to the real, so you bring light to the real and that, which is projection. What that, which is projected currently is what is the real right now? So real or reality is the current projection. Now that's only just an attribute of the various harmonic or light what's the word I'm looking for? The various proportionality is of light of the sound that's created. And now those things are all the attribute. So w the real is just a various and multiplicative representation of the simple, fundamental of that, which is so real and truth aren't necessarily even the same thing that I think what is real can vary in degrees. To what is actually the fundamental basis of the truth. So I don't have the big answer, but I that's how I've come to try to answer it or work on the, on finding it, and in that well, we'll reel is just a is a is it's the clothing that the truth wears so that we can communicate in and have communion with the eternal truth that we can never fully know, but we can know of it, of its principality by its awake front and the, in the manifested world that we see. And I think a really good example of that is the Fibonacci sequence, which is what we find in represented through all geometries in the, in, in the known universe, we have 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, and so forth. And so you have one in the beginning two times, why doesn't it start with zero, because zero is the nothingness that everything comes from. So it's not really a number and one is a principle. So you have one itself, the principle, and then the next one in the Fibonacci sequence is its attribute, which it's one in the same. The manifest universe is the multiplicity that comes from the unity. And it is all represented by that unity. And I think that the real is all the various manifestations, but when you find the thread that connects those, that's what the relative, right. Also related to the word real relative us, which means of, or relating to the prime or the fundamental source. So you can't have a relative truth without an absolute actually means oh, away from the solid. So it means constantly flowing. Oh always, always alive, absolute AB away from saw you, right? Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Really fascinating. Lisa, can I just stay with Remy on that one? Because I would like to ask just a few questions, possibly it leads into the hermetic principles, but I don't know, then I see what I understood you correctly. Remi. When you talk about principles, what I, what I understood this is like the building blocks of reality, these are the building, so to speak out. Yeah. And could you relate that to the hermetic principles? Would you say the metric principles are building blocks of reality, but that makes sense. Or if not, let's abandon that, but if it makes sense, then maybe you could talk a little bit about this hermetic principles. Yeah, absolutely. The word principle itself etymologically means to like to take and the first right prince premise, and then and then the pro Indo European cap, which means to grass. So it's the first thing to be grasped, right? So it's it is the it's exactly the building blocks a hundred percent. And the way I understand the seven hermetic principles is that those are discoveries right. In the same way that we've come to understand, force, motion, inertia, acceleration as physical things that make up the world of the secondary physical world. The hermetic principles are what make the unmeasurable world, the unquantifiable world, the world of quality. So yeah, there's the building blocks, the first being the principle of mentalism on the second being the principle of correspondence, third, being the principle of vibration fourth, being the principle of polarity fifth, being the principle of rhythm so the sixth principle was causing effect and then the seventh principle being the principle of gender. So these principles are. Again, they're the they're what create, or what have been discovered that operates in the realm of quality, not the realm of the countable little, the world of matter as we call it. So in ma in the modern world and mind modern scientific institutions, these aren't accounted for everything has to be matter. But that in and of itself has D it leaves so many questions unanswered until they, and then they start trying to solve the problem of consciousness with matter. And then there's like a, there's been a, sort of a breakdown in that. And that the solution to that has been has been presented as a daikon or as a what's the word I'm looking for? Exactly. It's been presented as a duality the, that the universe operates as a duality. The universe doesn't operate as a duality. We function with the perception of duality as a way to try to justify or try to reconcile inherently contradictory perspectives, because we're trying to tell the world that we live in a world of pure matter, but that's not really the case. So the seven hermetic principles lay down the very logical and coherent explanation of what goes to make the world of consciousness that then subsequently manifests and recreates the physical. Cyclically. So it's, it's not just, oh, this is, it's not, it does this. And then there's a physical world. It's the constant fluctuating principles that create the physical world. So everything that that you see and everything that, you know, as real, as a physical in the physical world had to actually first come from an idea. So this coffee mug right here, even let's say this is a cup that we put liquids in so that we can more easily consume the liquids. That had to be an idea first. Even on just a basic, very simple level, this doesn't have to be deep ISA esotericism for only the initiated. No this is really this is it's simple stuff that actually would help make the world a lot more easy to navigate. So you have the principle of mentalism all is mind. The universe has mental. So that lays the foundation for the rest of it. And then, so then you have correspondents, which just shows that everything that's present in the little world, you can actually see directly manifesting proportionally in the larger world. And this could be demonstrated in the fizz, in the physical world. So these are not actually contradict contradictory to the way the world operates in, in, in the realm of matter. It's just that we don't have instruments to measure this. So the materialist says. That's just, that's woo. But in the next is the principle of vibration, which is the idea that nothing rests and everything moves and everything vibrates. And so what is a what a vibration is just a transverse coaxial circuit. It's something that, that goes through a compression and expansion and contraction. And it fluctuates. So everything is constantly it's never, ever at truly at rest. It's constantly moving between a perceived polarity, which is the next one, right? And that's the fourth principle being polarity. Everything is dual or everything has its poles. Or in other words, for every principle, there's a perceived opposite principle. The way I understand polarity is that you have the thing and then you have. The thing that is perceived to be its opposite, which is actually a non-existent thing. So the concept of polarity is born out of the world of the manifest, which is and Walter Russell's perspective is that the center point, the fulcrum between the bit between the polarities, that state of rest is the state that everything is constantly trying to reach, but in the manifest realm, it never does because it constantly needs the polarities to communicate, to be a mirror of each other, to show the eternal center point between them. And then the principle of rhythm is that is that the constant swing that is is manifest in everything. And all of these are actually, they're cumulative. They refer back to the original or the one before it, so rhythm is that the swing to the right and to the left. Is that it's always compensating, right? And so this is where, like the concept of compensation comes from it's a principle of rhythm for every even a Newton's laws, right? For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction which is cause and effect number six, right? So every cause has its effect in every fact, every effect has its cost. And then the principle of gendered is the idea that gender is in everything and everything has its masculine and feminine principle and gen gender, that gender manifests on all planes and now gender can be seen manifest in in, the biological species that have a male and a female, like the human species. I know this is a big, hot topic for the world right now. And I always thought it was really interesting once I saw it coming up into the public eye more because knowing that it actually is a hermetic principle. And it's also, first of all, it's been obvious skated to the modern world where now we're saying. That we have no such thing as this actual principle, but it's also that we're losing touch with the idea that we should be in touch with both of these aspects within us. You turn internally. So the principle of Jan gender manifests in all things, and you can see that in the principle of correspondence and mentalism and vibration. So you have the expansion, you have the radiative, and then you have the and then you have the charge the inward, the outward and the inward and the constant flux. And that's what gender really is. So these, I think are absolutely the building blocks of every single thing that we see manifest. And so this could be even seen in human behavior. This could be seen in, in, in microbiology and macro biology, you can see it in and electricity, you can see it happening with geography or a not geography. When is the study of like rocks and stuff like that? Geology, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, so you, it's present in, in its various manifestations, so that, just to give a little, a quick little breakdown. So it's not a a random reference to the seven hermetic principles and actually don't lay them out. So those are the seven minute hermetic principles. And I think it's pretty fascinating how simple they are. And if you really just read them and think about it's yeah, you can find that. Observationally in life and in every single aspect. So I think that those are absolutely the fundamental building blocks of what's subsequently becomes the physical manifest and they're not separate. Okay. Lisa, I would like this one, one thing, and then it's fine. It's great. Thank you, Remi. The, you talked about the projection, right? So what I would be interested in if you took as quickly, I felt through Plato's cave by talking about the protection that, yeah. I guess that was on your mind, but really my question is now what is the relationship? How would you describe the relationship between, let's say the building blocks and then the manifested reality, because the principles are so good on that. They're so clear. Let's not call them good, but they're super clear and are obviously benign or neutral, whatever we want to call it, but, we can create this whole mess out of them. So how do we end up with this mess? So what is the kind of feedback, the situation with that? Or how can you describe that? The Remy is that's the question makes sense in the first place? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think that as I've really tried to understand this and how you see it manifesting now on the level of human behaviors and human structures and in our lives as Subjective and qualitative experiences and also how that plays into the larger scheme of things as an entire species. I think that it becomes clear that the more that we ignore the simple principles of this. So we have the, this is determined through this is like the deterministic component of reality, but then we have the other component which is manifest through or represented through the idea of polarity. We have the the chaotic component or the what's the word I'm looking for? Do we have the deterministic and the and not in Tropic, not but this solving basically. Yeah. So you have the yeah, you have the deterministic component being the principles that natural laws, which the summit seven hermetic principles are a representation of this general idea of natural law. And then you have the you have the freewill component, which is the ability to random, that's the word I'm looking for random component, right? So you have the deterministic and the random component is your ability to decide and to say am I going to watch the ebbs and flows in the and recognize these principles? Or am I going to try to stay on just one side of them and not let the, what the fluctuation happen? And I think what. Happens is we create a mess of society and or what becomes society when we are unable to integrate those principles into our thinking and to our action. And so the way you would, you, the way you would see that manifest is that we and I think, just even on the idea of what freedom, individuality, and freedom, right? This is this is a theme that you brought forward. And what is freedom then is freedom. The ability to do anything and not have a specific consequence because cause and effect is a principle of the universe. There is a, there's an actual, that's a component of the actual universe that we live in. And that's demonstrated, that's not just a belief, that's a demonstrable like repeated actual function of the universe. When you ignore that component, then you're actually acting. In a way that is not even in congruent, that's not actually congruent with the way that anything is actually functioning. So as a result, it will be compensated. You will, it will eventually that part portion of the polarity will have to be taken from you. If you don't free. If you're not, if you're not really truly living to it. So the world that we see it as we could either be living in a world of harmony or in a world of dissonance where largely it manifests directly proportional to the amount of people who are in who are in harmony with these understandings that are very simple. But because we have the ability to say, Hey, I'm going to live out of phase with these, then that out of phase living creates cancellation. And you see this in sound as well. If you have two sounds that are going on at the same time about the same frequency at a certain point, one's going to go up and one's going to go down. And that basic that, that opposite representation in the actual oscillation creates a cancellation in it. And then you don't hear anything. So it's it cancels itself out by being exactly the same, but opposite. And so you could see this idea of when you're living outside of these principles that need to be flowed with an integrated that you manifest what we would understand as dissonance or cancellation or, what is chaos on the grand scheme? Proportional to the amount that people are able to integrate these things. We will experience either an overall harmony or overall dissonance based off of how that manifests. So that's how freedom and freedom is the ability to recognize that things are as they are it's the ability like Orwell said, it's the ability to say two plus two equals four, right. And sorry. No, it was great. Yeah. And I was just going to say that freedom is the ability to decide that you are. To live with the harmony of this universe. That's just the, that's a basic right. Because a lot of what's being done right now is that we're told that we could just do whatever and no, it doesn't matter. We're going to do whatever. And that's just how, and however things happen. It could be good if you want it to be. And it's there's a certain level of actual order in this universe that we have to live and that's not, and that we're not enslaved to that. That's our palette with which we can create endless, beautiful manifestations with. So there are a lot more rights than there are wrongs. So it's better to understand what a wrong is so that you can have the freedom to manifest rights, actions, endlessly and creatively. Yes. Yes. I think Remy, I love your explanation seriously, because I must say now the hermetic principles, what I take away from what you just told me is basically this should be the basis of our education full stop. We should be steeped in the sprints. We should grow up with them. We should embody them, and if we did that the world would look indeed a very different place. And you mentioned that word escape. I wonder, how much opposition is constantly going on to take us always away from these core teachings. How long does it take us? Even curious, intellectually curious people to hit on these things. We usually find them by ourselves, right? We don't find them at school. We don't find them at university nowhere to be found. It's like a huge desert, the whole thing, and then we have to find them by ourselves. That seems to be the process, but I think it's absolutely wonderful the way you described it. And Lisa, just one thing, because with Remi, I try to answer the question. I'm quite curious. How do you see this whole thing now, developing? What's your sense? Or where do you think this is going? Or, and I'm not asking you to be a prophet, but what's your sense? Where will we be in a few years' time I'm asking for your sentence really for you, obviously not because you couldn't give us enough. I think that just based off of what has already been done and what's happening today, if you just look at what's happening today, around the world with the, and you can go and, it's hard to decipher and get a completely clear picture about what really is happening because there's so much theater behind the media representation of what's happening on all sides, because it's gonna be colored a little bit. I think once you get a sum average of everything that's occurring, I think that there's going to be a period of manifested chaos. I think that, I think, it's already happening. This is by all senses of the word, this is chaos, what we're living in right now, because it's so out of sync with what is actually natural patterns and and harmonic, integration with the universe as a whole, or even just the planet itself. So I think that as a result of that, we're going to just as, because there's a small group of people who are projecting their perceived control over the world, which can not actually ever be done. And these beings who are doing this, these people, they know these principles that I'm talking about right now, they know these are in their mystery schools. These are some of the things that they keep tightly sealed so that other people don't know them, because if people knew these things, then they wouldn't be quite so easy to control. And because of that, we, as a public are actually acting in a way that is directly, I would say directly Mirroring the world that these control classes want things to be, but they're not doing it. We are. Yes. They suggest it. And we actually put it into action. So as a result, I think that we'll see. We're going to see, I think some consequences of that. I think overall there's going to be, there will be reckoning and there's going to be a reconciliation, but that's I think that's the light at the end of the tunnel, but it doesn't mean that it's not going to hurt to get there. So I think that's overall, I don't think that we're going to skip out on any on any suffering on a large scale, and everyone's going to feel it whether you have played into this degree or have taken, the suggested, treatment that they want everybody to take or not. I there's, no, one's going to fully skip out on the suffering. That's going to happen fully, right? That doesn't mean that your life is going to be pure suffering and nothing until the end, but you will feel it. And I think it's important that you allow yourself to feel it. Because these are, these people are not just projections over our mind. All these people that are out there that we believe to be fractured. Separate parts of this particulate world are actually parts of us. And we are on a process of learning just how perfect these natural laws are. And there will be compensation that will be, need to be paid. So I think I see it playing out in there's going to be some in something that you said earlier that I think is really important to note is that they have made their decision. They, that they right have made their decision and they are going to operate with sustained willpower until it plays out to its final ultimate conclusion. Now what that has always looked like is that if the beings try to usurp the power of the universal forces, it will always be short-lived. But that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. And that doesn't mean that only the people who are directly at the crux of that are going to be the ones affected. There will be collateral damage. Unfortunately now that being said, I think it is very important to, I think for me, my, one of my main goals is to get this very simple knowledge out there. These, stay away from all the various Dyke, we think this on this and it's let's look at this fundamental thing. And all those other details will work themselves out beautifully between understanding microbiology, resonance, electromagnetism, homeopathy, natural apathy, It will fit. We'll figure out a lot. We'll figure out a lot if we can first start with the fundamentals, but yeah, I think that it will. We'll see, I think, I guess to answer that question directly, I think we'll see it play out. I'm so great to be both doing this cause I just don't think to my favorite minds to chatting to together and I'm just like, yeah, it's brilliant. I'm really grateful for you both for doing it and I appreciate your time too. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yes. And thank you Robert. Really great to get to know you, I must say. And hopefully it's not the last time. For me, it's now we are forming tribes, right? And if you don't mind Remy, I will have you as part of my tribe, and your. 'cause that's the kind of connections we need to make. It's very important. It's very strong. So it has been great. Has been very interesting indeed.